Posts by Disillusioned JW

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman I do know that the WT currently says that accepting a blood transfusion (such as whole blood, red blood cells, or white blood cells) is not a conscience matter for Christians (and thus also for JWs). When I asked if you would take a blood transfusion in certain circumstances to save your life, I was basically asking how confident are you regarding the WT teaching regarding blood transfusions. I was wondering if you would be willing to adhere to it no matter what, despite you knowing that the WT/JW religion used to forbid life saving organ transplants and life saving vaccines (saying such on scriptural grounds), but that later they said it is a conscience matter. I was also wondering if you might have some doubts, however small, that Jehovah is real and that the Bible his word, and that if you had any such doubts if that would influence your decision about hypothetically accepting a blood transfusion in order to save your life. I think in one of your posts which I read you said you disagree with the WT on some (though not many) teachings. I thus thought you might be open under certain circumstances to disobeying the WT's current prohibition on blood transfusions.

I invite you to consider another approach. I doubt it will persuade you but perhaps it might persuade other readers.

Readers, who originally wrote down the Hebrew Scriptures? It was Jewish people of the Jewish religion (for simplicity, lets just say devout Jews). Right?

For centuries who were the only people who copied the Hebrew Scriptures? It was devout Jews. Right?

For centuries who were the only people who strove to keep the Torah and to adhere to all of the laws the Hebrew Scriptures? It was the devout Jews (and proselytes to the Jewish religion).

Throughout the centuries all the way to the present day, who primarily are the ones who study the Hebrew Scriptures more than other other collection of scriptures? It was and is the devout Jews (and proselytes to the Jewish religion). Right?

So what group of people are most likely to understand correctly the laws of the Hebrew Scriptures? It is the devout Jews right?

What do the devout Jews, and the branches of modern day Judaism, say the Hebrew Scriptures indicate regarding blood transfusions? They say the scriptures indicate that blood transfusions are PERMISSIBLE.

The above information is a major part (in addition to specific scriptural arguments) of the reason why I when I was an independent Christian concluded the WT is wrong regarding their forbidding of blood transfusions. Please consider the following from Jewish non-Christian sources. [In the quotes below I have added some boldface for emphasis.]

https://www.oztorah.com/2012/08/blood-transfusions-ask-the-rabbi/#.Y8Yn7LjBZkg says the following.

"Blood transfusions – Ask the Rabbi

Q. How can Judaism permit blood transfusions when the Torah forbids consuming blood?

A. Often in my rabbinic career I was asked whether there are valid Biblical grounds for the refusal of certain faiths to accept blood transfusions.

The verse these faiths quote is, “Be determined in not consuming the blood, for the blood is the life, and you shall not eat the blood with the flesh” (Deut. 12:23).

The Jewish answer is that this is not what the verse is saying at all. The verse says, l’vil’ti achol ha-dam, “you shall not eat the blood”. In a blood transfusion the blood is not eaten.

Secondly, in an emergency the commandments may be set aside (except for three: the prohibitions of idolatry, adultery and murder). If a blood transfusion is necessary in order to save life, then life takes priority."

https://www.waht.nhs.uk/en-GB/Our-Services1/Non-Clinical-Services1/Chapel/Faith-and-Culture/Judaism/ says the following.

"Introduction

Judaism is an ancient religion that has been practised for over 5,000 years and is based on the belief in one universal God. Jews believe in the Torah (Divine Law), which was revealed to Moses and is viewed as unchanging. They also believe that God is omniscient and will reward the righteous and punish the wicked at the end of time when there will be a resurrection of ail the dead.

Jews must live their lives by certain basic tenets: to carry out the Ten Commandments and to live according to Jewish values based on love of one's neighbour and tolerance of one's fellow human beings.

...

Blood transfusions, transplants and organ donation

Jewish law approves blood transfusion in order to achieve the desired medical outcomes.

Jewish law permits organ donation from dead bodies where there is a high chance of success for the specific recipient. Relatives of a potential donor will wish to consult an appropriate rabbi before making a decision, and this should obviously be facilitated."

https://njop.org/blood-is-life-3/ says the following.

'Blood is Life

January has been labeled National Blood Donor Month, making it an ideal time for Jewish Treats to reflect upon Judaism’s special attitude toward blood.

...
Jewish thought makes very clear that blood is life, and that people must recognize the life-affirming power of blood. For instance, a person is not allowed to consume blood as food or drink, and if an individual deliberately sheds the blood of wild animals or fowl when slaughtering food, the blood must be covered as a sign of respect.

Since human blood cannot be consumed, we might ask whether blood transfusions are permitted. The answer, simply, is yes. A person may both give and receive blood transfusions because Judaism puts the utmost importance on preserving life. For those who need it, Ezekiel’s words: “By your blood shall you live” (Ezekiel 16:6) has some very literal implications.'

203

My Explanation of Why They Got it Wrong About Blood Using Only the NWT

by cofty in

10 " any israelite or any alien living among them who eats any bloodi will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.

12 therefore i say to the israelites, "none of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.

15 'anyone, whether native-born or alien, who eats anything found dead or torn by wild animals must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be ceremonially unclean till evening; then he will be clean.

Disillusioned JW

Fisherman if for some reason you were ever to experience massive blood loss (such as from internal bleeding of some kind) and ended up in the hospital intensive care unit as a result, would you refuse to receive a blood transfusion if the doctors said it was the only way to save your life and to prevent massive organ damage? Is your faith (or your belief or conviction) strong enough in the JW's governing body, in Yahweh, and in the Bible for you to be confident that God will resurrect people (including you if you die) to life?

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

Disillusioned JW

Correction: In my prior post where I said '... have access to that library" I meant to says "... have no access to that library".

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

Disillusioned JW

Of course the library at the WT's international headquarters (the USA branch) has a copy of every WT publication ever printed, tough perhaps the vast majority of the of the people at Bethel have access to that library.

62

NASA: Humans Back to the Moon

by Gerard in

nasa plans return to moon by 2020

"this vision aims to return humans to the moon, and then to use it as a staging point for a manned mission to mars.

i wonder if jws will be required to canvas those areas too.

Disillusioned JW

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/yeast-space-experiment-1.6711816 has an article called the following. "NASA shot yeast into space. The science could help protect astronauts, researchers say. Yeast has a similar genetic make-up as humans, and researchers at the University of British Columbia will now study how cosmic radiation impacted the samples to better understand how people could survive in space." It says the following.

'The ultimate end game is to find a way to protect astronauts — and potential members of future space colonies— from the same harmful rays.

"By 2030 I know NASA has plans for a permanent settlement on the moon," said Nislow, speaking to CBC's As It Happens Wednesday.

... Nislow said yeast and algae have about 70 per cent of the same genes as people, including the RAD51 gene that is essential for making a protein to repair DNA.

There is potential, said Nislow, that scientists could glean enough information from the samples to create a drug that would deliver extra RAD51 MRNA to people going to space and keep them safe.

"So we've genetically-equipped these astronauts without changing their DNA," he said, referring to COVID-19 vaccines as successful examples of MRNA delivery.

... When the Artemis 1 mission launched in November, Canada's Innovation Science and Industry Minister François-Philippe Champagne announced a Canadian astronaut will be on board Artemis II as part of a crew set to travel to the moon's orbit in 2024.

It will be the first time a Canadian will travel to deep space.'

The page at https://tech.hindustantimes.com/tech/news/artemis-iii-first-ever-manned-mission-to-moon-s-south-pole-step-by-step-details-by-nasa-71673683414343.html has details of the planned Artemis III mission to land humans onto the moon's south pole!

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

Disillusioned JW

By the way, Rutherford's The Harp of God: Proof Conclusive that Millions now Living will never Die also uses the title "Lord" extensively, not just the name "Jehovah" extensively.

27

So where oh where did Judge Rutherford come up with JW theology?

by Terry in

jw
friends

bits of unreported history that may be of casual interest… as to doctrinal origins.

sykes was one-of-a-kind in the pentecostal movement, but he was considered quite a maverick who went his own way with heretical teachings repugnant to the pentecostal faith.. joshua sykes’ congregation was integrated, unlike pastor russell’s public speeches/sermons where blacks and whites both could attend, but only in separate sections--sykes's members were sitting side by side in the pentecostal church.

this was considered dangerous and inflammatory at the time.. pentecostal preacher joshua sykes practiced racial and gender "integration" as early as 1908 -- having both african-american and female assistant preachers, staffers, and members.

Disillusioned JW

I am shocked to read the claim that all or even most or even some) of the books which claim to be authored by Rutherford were actually authored by Fred Franz! However the claim might explain why such a large number of books are in Rutherford's name. I would think from time to time how could one person (such as Rutherford) write so many books and booklets? I think that the Harp of God and Deliverance books are some of the best written books of those which are in Rutherford's name, and of those published by the WT. The vast majority of the doctrines in most of the chapters of the latter book seem to be the same as what the WT taught in 1995, but with some minor changes in some teachings. It would be a bit sad to me if I were to conclude that Rutherford didn't write those books.

One time while I reading parts of the Deliverance book (despite me being an atheist) I was so in awe of the reasoning (and facts presented in support of such), and so fond of the joyous message of the content about Christ already ruling and already uplifting human society (and of Christ speaking softly to individual Christians in their minds to instruct them and to direct them, invisibly from heaven), that for several minutes with intense emotion (holding back tears of joy and appreciation) I said out loud to myself "It is true! It is true! It is the truth!" After several minutes of that reaction, I came back to my senses. The book was published in the early 1920s and thus in the "Roaring 20s" (of economic boom and technological marvels) and thus people living back then in the USA, in the peace of that post "Great War" (World War I) period, could easily think that the world is getting much better. Jews were returning to Palestine. Science was producing major medical cures. Engineers were inventing amazing labor saving devices; radio shows were being broadcast. Airplanes were being flown. The Directors of the WT had been released prison (after having been in prison for about 3.5 years or so) and those associated with the WT and the International Bible Students began/resumed earnestly advertising the kingdom.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Disillusioned JW

Correction: In my prior post where I said "... in helping me to cease being homeless ..." I meant "... in helping people to cease being homeless ...". I am not homeless.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Disillusioned JW

There are Hispanic people (born outside of the USA, in a predominately Catholic country) at my place of work whose primary language is Spanish, who were formerly Catholic but who specifically say they are now "Christian". When I ask them their denomination they either say they don't know or they say it is simply "Christian". Many (not just the Hispanic ones) don't even know know the name of their specific congregation.

Furthermore, some of my coworkers might be going to a Baptist church without knowing it is Baptist. In response to my questioning a coworker (who came from an Asian country, I think it is a communist country), the coworker said she to me "I think it is Baptist" in regards to her church.

I have not inquired (or researched) any nondenominational church to find out if it was formed by a splitting up of another church. However, a person at one of the churches told me that people from multiple churches have switched to their church. His nondenominational Bible church seems to evangelize people from other churches and his its church sticks to basic teachings of the Bible. Many years ago when I visited the church to see what it is like I noticed there are lots of people there (including lots of people under age 40). Probably well over 200 were in attendance. They have a band which plays "praise" style worship. One day a week they serve very good dinners (though a sign asks for a donation to pay the cost of the meal) in a cafeteria line style. When I was there one time the sermon (in one of its points) specifically taught against atheism/philosophical naturalism. [A Catholic church I visited also specifically taught against atheism/philosophical naturalism.]

At a different Bible church which serves a free dinner (to anyone) one day a week, the person who founded the free meal service also founded a nonprofit to help the homeless (and he told me 100% of the donations they receive are distributed to various homeless charities which meet their criteria of effectiveness in helping me to cease being homeless). They used to also have a "Celebrate Recovery" program there after their Tuesday night worship service. They still have the midweek worship service and it is a "praise" style worship service. They have men's ministries and women's ministries. I was told they have men ministers and women ministers.

169

Are the statistics out yet?

by slimboyfat in

isn’t it about time they released the report for the service year?

or have they stopped publishing it?

did they released selected figures at the annual meeting as they usually do, such as the memorial attendance or record number of pioneers?

Disillusioned JW

joe134cd and slimboyfat, but if one can correctly claim it is "more a reshuffle, rather than actual growth" then the same thing could also correctly be said about the JWs, especially prior to 1975. Namely, a great many who became JWs, who were not raised as JWs, instead came from other Christian religions (according the language of the WT, they came out of Babylon the Great, primarily out of Christendom). The WT literature (since it quotes heavily form the Bible) is geared to people who read the Christian Bible (or at least think it is a good book). It is not geared to Muslims or some other non-Christian religion, nor is it much geared to the nonreligious. Whether most of the nondenominational members came from another church (whether a conservative Protestant Church or the Catholic Church or some other church), the nondenominational churches in the USA are still growing much faster that the WT's JW "church". But yes in the USA, Christians (as a percentage of the total population) are now declining, likewise in the USA in regards to Protestant Christianity as whole.